Episode 091 -Eni Selfo -Head of Community Management at Mindvalley

Chris Detzel: All right, well welcome everyone to another peers over beers my name is Chris Council and I have a super special guest.

Chris Detzel: Any cell phone any how are you.

Eni Selfo: Very good hi Chris.

Chris Detzel: Nice to meet you, and this is the first time we've actually had a conversation ever.

Eni Selfo: Yes, that's correct.

Chris Detzel: i'm gonna see the warm up happening.

Eni Selfo: Thank you for having me create some really excited to be here with you today and to go a little bit deeper into Community together.

Chris Detzel: yeah me too, and you know I think when you we were doing the we call it, I call it the pre show kind of getting to know you a little bit and you kept going on and on about this amazing stuff that you're.

Chris Detzel: about your life and how you get the Community, I was like okay let's stop there, because I want everybody know about this, because this is really interesting and before I do, though, do you like beer or anything like that is that another thing.

Eni Selfo: i'm more of a wine or cocktail.

Eni Selfo: Lady so.

Chris Detzel: that's okay that's all right beer.

Chris Detzel: Wine cocktails i'm you know i've been drinking less beer as of late and in trying different cocktails but i'm also doing some kind of you know, some whiskey type but tasting and buying some whiskeys and things like that, like Scotch and whatnot so.

Eni Selfo: Chris.

Chris Detzel: I know.

Chris Detzel: that's my thought I thought, maybe I can be a little bit more manly and try the Scotch stuff it's not so bad, you know so.

Chris Detzel: Well hey why don't we get started, and you know why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of where you're from got how you get to be into the Community atmosphere and all that stuff you know love to learn more.

Eni Selfo: awesome Thank you Chris so um Well, my name is amy i'm currently serving as the head of community of mind Valley, I have been in mind Valley, for over six years now in this role for about four years.

Eni Selfo: So it's been quite interesting to see the evolution of Community even just in the past, like five years or so there's been tremendous change in the industry.

Eni Selfo: But about myself is something that I really like to start with is that i'm the daughter of migrants.

Eni Selfo: i'm Italian, however, my family is from IBM, so I was born in Albania, and then we moved to Italy, when I was one year and a half and that's where.

Eni Selfo: What I was studying new sharing with you earlier, that That was my first probably.

Eni Selfo: moment where I understood the power of Community because I was taking away from everything that was my familiar network and put into a reality that didn't want us, we were the unwanted migrants, and that was majority of my life, since I was 19.

Eni Selfo: And this is quite interesting because I was very, very much into the theme of belonging, because of this personal journey of mine and something that's really allowed me to learn how to navigate social dynamics was understanding how to fit in in a place it doesn't want you.

Eni Selfo: So at age 19 with this journey of mine, I wanted to change the word I found it quite an unfair place so I moved to London.

Eni Selfo: to London because.

Eni Selfo: As I, as I said I had to face the fact that if I wanted to go down these international relations path, which is what I wanted to do in Italy, being a foreigner in a place like eatery wasn't going to be.

Eni Selfo: helping me in my career, so I wanted to move somewhere that felt a little bit more meritocratic that's how I ended up in London, where nobody cared where I was, from which was extremely refreshing to me.

Eni Selfo: yeah and I did last year of my.

Eni Selfo: University, I was joining a competition called your big year and the price for that was super cool so we were we were looking to select one person that would represent our generation and travel the world for free for one year, working in social entrepreneurship projects.

Eni Selfo: I was like Okay, I am whatever I have to do.

Chris Detzel: i'll take it.

Eni Selfo: wow yes, and he was created by an organization called word married.

Eni Selfo: Very cool concept, the idea of bringing more of meritocracy inside of indication, instead of where you come from which was super aligned with my path as I just shared.

Eni Selfo: yeah and I That was the first time.

Eni Selfo: I actually found out or even man to be inside of an online community, even though that was not really the name back then.

Eni Selfo: And when I was trying to explain people what that was about the closest.

Eni Selfo: thing was a forum, you know i've been there was no such conception and the online communities were talking almost 10 years ago now.

Eni Selfo: Anyhow, I go through the competition, I start falling in love with the network young people from all over the world, they were writing books starting organizations and I felt so inspired and that was the first time I really understood.

Eni Selfo: how important it is to be surrounded really by examples and stories that inspire you to transformation and I felt so much in love with the organization that I actually dropped out from the competition.

Eni Selfo: And I gave up the dream of traveling the world because I was offered a job, to actually manage that network.

Eni Selfo: Nice yes.

Chris Detzel: that's pretty awesome.

Eni Selfo: So that's how my journey to Community started and then from there, love brought me to Brazil, where I actually need for three years.

Eni Selfo: Yes, and that was a completely different journey into Community because I worked much more into the offline world so alternative educational projects and co working spaces and then.

Eni Selfo: I bumped into mine valley and that's where I moved to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, where I lived for three years really went.

Chris Detzel: jumping all over the place.

Eni Selfo: Yes, I be everywhere.

Chris Detzel: wow.

Eni Selfo: Yes, and and from their loved like again completely different reintegration process all of my life has been about rebuilding really Community wherever I would go.

Eni Selfo: And now i'm in Tallinn, Estonia, which is currently my base so i'm back to Europe, after a long decade in other continents.

Chris Detzel: I love it it's just so much you've just been so many places, and had had to rebuild your life in a sense, and all these different places built community.

Chris Detzel: And those kinds of things and then now you're you know you've been at this one company for a while now and it's kind of the same role what very fascinating it was so i'm curious how many languages, can you speak.

Chris Detzel: For four languages, what are they.

Eni Selfo: Yes, i'm Italian, Portuguese Albanian and.

Chris Detzel: I love it, you know so i'll i'll tell you a little story, because I just think it's so interesting is my so the Co founder so i'm one of the co founders of peers over beers and.

Chris Detzel: The other person that was the Co founder His name was Michael Sandoval and whenever we started this you know we just doing it to friends, we just get together and.

Chris Detzel: Have beers literally and just talk about all things community, I just want to be close to him, because he was a good friend, when I left the company that we were working for, and he knew four or five languages one was Spanish he's.

Chris Detzel: from Mexico he's from El paso and to was English three was Portuguese force German and then I think he was working on some other languages.

Chris Detzel: And it was very important to him, you know to do that, and what I found is and you tell me if i'm wrong, but anyone from Europe, or you see like outside of the US, for the most part.

Chris Detzel: knows 2345 languages, you know when you're in the US, you might depending but if you're an American you might know what.

Eni Selfo: I would say.

Eni Selfo: I mean, unless you were born in the UK or wherever else.

Eni Selfo: you're kind of forced to at least go bilingual so.

Chris Detzel: yeah yeah yeah I think it's great because you know just think about all the the the things that you understand the the cultures that you can really fit there's very much of a positive to it i'm sure it's extremely difficult I don't know but.

Chris Detzel: So I think that's great I love that's why I asked a question is is i'm just in all you know folks that know, several languages and things like that so.

Eni Selfo: interesting because I actually can only handle three languages, at the same time and kind of like the fourth I could I could go between conversations in ghosts three languages, but if you mixing the fourth that's my limit and that.

Eni Selfo: I really need to make a massive mental effort to kind of take out the box of the fourth language.

Chris Detzel: Interesting oh yeah it's.

Eni Selfo: quite interesting to see what happens to the brain when it comes to languages.

Chris Detzel: So something else I know we're a little off, but I think it's okay as to one time I worked at this company called copier say and there's this.

Chris Detzel: This company got bought by next company and so these guys came up with for Mexico, and I was in the elevator just listening to one of the owners are the guy that bought it.

Chris Detzel: And somebody asked him so you know there's somebody has asked him about the languages, because you know that this last night, was the first time I dreamed in English dream.

Chris Detzel: In an English and it was just.

Chris Detzel: He was it was like I woke up like what oh my gosh.

Chris Detzel: So you know I guess that's whenever you know it's also kind of natural is when you start dreaming, you know and that language.

Eni Selfo: or when you start seeing say you bumped into a corner and really hurt yourself, which language to your square into.

Chris Detzel: That I like.

Chris Detzel: Oh shit I mean for whatever exactly that's.

Eni Selfo: A nice vacation.

Chris Detzel: I love it.

Chris Detzel: To bring this back around it i'm the worst of bringing them back around so feel free to always bring it back around to but.

Chris Detzel: So at the current company that you're at, can you tell us a little bit about you know that maybe company, but more so, about the Community and how you're building it and what you're thinking about.

Eni Selfo: Oh yes, cool so well mine valley it's.

Eni Selfo: Truly our promise is for our students to be able to awaken their greatness, so it started with the intention of bringing to the world everything that's called doesn't teach you.

Eni Selfo: which I find personally very fascinating like live, for example, we have a course on how to divorce or better how to uncoupled consciously.

Eni Selfo: Well, so things that nobody ever tells you this is how you deal with it, you know.

Eni Selfo: This is how you become a better parent, this is how you let go of a relationship that no longer works, this is how you start your business, of course, we have more traditional stuff this is how you tap into your intuition so.

Eni Selfo: it's a very powerful place to be in because one of our main values is transformation and here, is where the Community parts start getting interesting when it comes to your personal transformation that tends to be quite a lonely journey.

Eni Selfo: I mean to you and your reflections and oftentimes.

Eni Selfo: What i've noticed, you know the most common question that we get inside of mine Valley, probably to me whenever we do a Q amp a with our founder vision.

Eni Selfo: is always one of the top questions people always ask what to do when your family or partner is not in the same path of personal journey, as you are.

Eni Selfo: So for someone who has decided to look in the mirror and say Okay, I am no longer Okay, with the person or the behaviors that i'm showcasing in my daily life, and I want to change.

Eni Selfo: Finding other people with whom you can actually share even the vocabulary of that transformation, because that becomes really tricky you start literally communicating in a different language you you start.

Eni Selfo: You need someone with in it for you that's really the core of the Community in mind body, because etc, it tends to be a very lonely journey and even though we've come to great.

Eni Selfo: advancement when it comes to our understanding of mental health and promotion of mental health at work.

Eni Selfo: it's still in many cultures in many places it still feels even taboo for people to say, this is what i'm doing right now, this is where i'm focusing on.

Eni Selfo: So that's I would say, the core of the Community, and what I really love, is that we do that, but you know when this healing space let's call it there, like personal transformation space sometimes can get really heavy people are like.

Eni Selfo: yeah.

Eni Selfo: Down the trauma spirit.

Eni Selfo: And what I really love about mind body is that we do.

Eni Selfo: We do all of these while having a lot of fun so we're very famous for our costume parties.

Eni Selfo: You really need to check out our festival called a fast.

Eni Selfo: awesome responses and we throw amazing parties all around the world, so it's this combination of transformation and fun that had the Community really come together so specifically when we were hosting events that's when we saw the strongest bonds up and.

Eni Selfo: People naturally you're you're you're sharing unexperienced that there's tons of research on this.

Eni Selfo: you're sharing an experience an experience that deeply transformative in this is designed to provoke transformation in you it's not just knowledge sharing that's.

Eni Selfo: that's the difference between learning you just like write down the bullet points but transformation you come out a different individual right so sharing that and making it memorable.

Eni Selfo: With you know fun elements in it challenges in it, even just coming up with the costume is a challenge, on its own, you know what I mean for our our theme nights.

Chris Detzel: that's what I want to back up.

Chris Detzel: happening, I want to get a little bit more.

Chris Detzel: Because this is fascinating to me like so you know what is when you go through a transformation like that you get to think about all the emotions.

Chris Detzel: You know that go on and somebody's mind and heart and everything else, and like you said it's it can be lonely and you kind of bring in those people together to make it not so only but.

Chris Detzel: I i'm interested in the events piece, you know you mentioned you do events costume parties all kinds of crazy awesome things you know, and I love it and.

Chris Detzel: But you know I do think that that's where people bond face to face, and these events and start you know, and I think there's something there, and a lot of companies are doing this.

Chris Detzel: But I want to talk a little bit more about that you know what what kind what one is, let me like think through this because I think it's.

Chris Detzel: You can just react to it is when I think of the event, you know where are you having these events are they consistent events like throughout the.

Chris Detzel: You know, in one place from these different places, how do you manage those events and then you know.

Chris Detzel: What what's if you know you don't have to know, but if there's Roi or how do you track it, how do you kind of think about.

Chris Detzel: You know what's the value to the company to do these things, and that kind of stuff for to the Community, obviously we know the value to the Community, because they're.

Chris Detzel: bonding they're talking, you know, maybe they're talking about the company, you know because it's huge awareness kind of thing and they and then they start becoming advocates and all that kind of stuff but.

Chris Detzel: yeah I said a lot of things.

Chris Detzel: I don't know i'm just very interested in the events piece, more specifically, around you know all the stuff that I just said, you know where are you doing, how are you doing them off and and some of the same places and then different places, and how does that go and how does that work.

Eni Selfo: So we can always change locations that's part of the variety element and also one of the ways in which we keep the Community wanting to come back, because every time is going to be a different experience.

Eni Selfo: And we also.

Eni Selfo: The location, how we choose the location is very intentional, depending on the event that we want to build, so the festival that I talked about has to be a jaw dropping landscape, it has to be a tropical or you know exotic location, that you would want to go on a vacation basically.

Eni Selfo: awesome, but we also have another another event, it is awesome you absolutely have.

to collect some maybe.

Eni Selfo: there's.

Eni Selfo: This other event that we do, which is called mind valley University, which was the.

Eni Selfo: One of the most challenging and also craziest ideas we've ever had but from a purpose of Community building, one of the craziest most exciting experiments have ever seen, so we do one event that last three weeks.

Eni Selfo: And there's a daily agenda.

Eni Selfo: From 10am to four or 5pm happening every day without obviously the weekends, because in weekends, we party that's already I told you that and.

Eni Selfo: We have three Pardo attacks happening, so we have a truck for kids attract for teenagers and attract for adults, so the idea was what if we could take a whole family.

Eni Selfo: To actually learn and transform together instead of just going for application, where the parents are like line and the kids hopefully have some activities to do, and nothing really truly.

Eni Selfo: Outstanding comes of that in terms of memories, because everyone is kind of doing their own thing.

Eni Selfo: And here, people imagine last time that we did this experiment in Tallinn, Estonia, where I am right now we had 1000 people fly from all over the world and literally take over Thailand for three weeks, can you imagine what that does in terms of Community building.

Chris Detzel: it's great.

Eni Selfo: and

Chris Detzel: I am thinking about i'm thinking about like the backend stuff like.

Chris Detzel: All the stuff that you have to do as a company to make that shit happen.

Eni Selfo: Like it's just saying.

I mean.

Eni Selfo: Logistically logistically it's insane.

Eni Selfo: However, in terms of Roi from these I could tell you many things so.

Eni Selfo: I mean obviously they're from a company perspective there's content that gets created.

Chris Detzel: yeah so video.

Eni Selfo: Yes, all of the speakers, everything that goes on YouTube social media that's number.

Eni Selfo: One number two is authors people that we would want to have in our platform as authors actually fall in love with what we are creating because of the Community.

Eni Selfo: yeah because it's a it's a community that has a very unique DNA to it, everyone is so warm open and friendly because everybody so open to questioning where they are and changing basically so all of the author say oh my God, I feel like i've just walked into.

Eni Selfo: My family.

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Chris Detzel: it's just you can have that relationship, even with the authors just.

Chris Detzel: Asking questions hey you don't you don't mind if I put this on here, oh no go ahead, this is great oh my God such an emotional kind of lift that everybody wants to participate and be a part of and fairly easy for an author I would assume you know.

Chris Detzel: it's never easy but.

Chris Detzel: it's but you know, for me, I have a B2B community that you know is focused in on this thing for organizations, you know it's good but it's not so emotionally charged, you know what I mean and it's not well, let me tell you about my master data management project oh my gosh.

Chris Detzel: what's a bore in a way, you know i'm, not to say others don't want to listen to that, but it's it's not the same kind of emotionally charged in spiritually inclined to kind of stuff that you're doing, which sounds phenomenal.

Eni Selfo: yeah and that that becomes also a very big incentive for the Community to come together because.

Eni Selfo: Imagine if you've transformed my life, Greece and I took your course.

Eni Selfo: And because of you i've redefined the relationship that I have with my own self, then I will be looking forward to meeting you and telling you this.

Eni Selfo: yeah so for the Community becomes a moment to finally meet people that have gone through the journey with them people that have allowed them to transform.

Eni Selfo: And on that perspective, again in terms of business values, obviously we have retention being the biggest one that we want to look at.

Eni Selfo: yeah and.

Eni Selfo: You know stickiness in the APP all of the things that kind of like the boring stuff that we will have to report on in terms of how, how are.

Eni Selfo: How are our events impacting monthly active users daily active users what's the can we draw any correlation between attendance in advance and retention yeah so I have to say, we don't have all of the formulas down so.

Chris Detzel: At the time, that's a hard one so.

Chris Detzel: I don't think everybody.

Chris Detzel: Really, has it down by the way, I mean.

Eni Selfo: Thank you for letting me know that's reassuring i'm not.

Eni Selfo: Doing you.

Chris Detzel: don't feel bad like but it's a struggle that you know all communities leaders have is.

Chris Detzel: It all depends on what your goals are but you know retention is a good one, but it's very hard to try it because.

Chris Detzel: You know community can influence those things I don't think that you know.

Chris Detzel: It feels like that something like what you have can influence it heavily because you know people are sharing their experiences, people are you know.

Chris Detzel: And maybe that's that's everywhere, but still trying to prove it out, because there could be many factors right like maybe they don't retain they don't come back because maybe they run out of money or.

Chris Detzel: You know, because these trips probably aren't that cheap right, you know, but no seriously like it's just like a company.

Eni Selfo: thousand thing excellent yeah.

Chris Detzel: thousand things can happen right so be an influence, and so I think you have to remember that is how.

Chris Detzel: Communities going to be more influential over that stuff and how do you prove it and there's ways to prove it right, maybe get a data scientist or data person that really can help you push data in from your Community over to you know some.

Chris Detzel: Big you know, like Microsoft bi or tablo or whatever, but just so you can kind of track it look at it, for the most part, I would love to say.

Chris Detzel: When Community members engage in the Community, when they reply when they like when they speak when they do certain things they reunite read they renew at higher rates they don't just renew the renew higher and they buy more.

Chris Detzel: And so the Cross sell upsell stuff is their opportunities there you know.

Chris Detzel: And so maybe that's true but can we prove it is and so that's a hard thing you know the company has to invest in those really smart people to prove some of that out, you know and that's part of our jobs as community leaders, in my opinion, not to say it's all on us, but.

Chris Detzel: is to prove it, you know, like.

Eni Selfo: Absolutely nothing that is hard and actually that's probably one of the biggest challenges that i'm facing right now in the role, together with Okay, we put together these these events that are magical.

Eni Selfo: yeah and there if i'm not mistaken, for the festival, I told you about 89% of our attendees say Barry has been one of the best experiences of their lives, so we are talking when I say they're magical i'm not just saying you know.

Eni Selfo: Leaving yeah yeah it's it's not an overstatement.

Eni Selfo: And how do you replicate that throughout the years because, when the moment where we have to close events becomes very emotional for everyone in the Community, because they've literally stepped into a reality that doesn't exist in their daily life.

Eni Selfo: And this is where the opportunity and the challenge is right now for me and my team is there any way in which we can recreate even if it's just a fraction of that magic.

Eni Selfo: yeah all around the world, so I know I was reading the cms industry report on Community recently.

Eni Selfo: And I think there's been 13% increase compared to last year to companies that are going to invest in community life events seems to be one of the biggest trends for 2022 definitely were part of that.

Eni Selfo: and

Eni Selfo: With this very big question in mind.

Eni Selfo: and on top of it linked, while we were just talking about Okay, and how am I going to prove the value of that So if I have 10 people that are going to go mastermind together, for example.

Eni Selfo: Then, then what.

Eni Selfo: Then what for the company.

yeah.

Chris Detzel: I think that.

Chris Detzel: You know i'm sure, for your company, especially you know there's been kind of a transformation of with the coven and everything else, because people were so used to going to events.

Chris Detzel: like that to not going to events, hopefully, some of that changes, you know what what have you been doing for the last two years, you know to kind of keep people engaged and involved, you know from a Community standpoint.

Eni Selfo: Well, all of that was to try to translate it in the online.

yeah.

Eni Selfo: I think we have all found this out, it is not the same.

Eni Selfo: Not the same However, it did open some interesting opportunities for example, we never really knew how important it was for our customers there they actually spoke about the transformation in their own language.

Eni Selfo: So give you an example, our Spanish market went insane when it came to online Community events.

Eni Selfo: Because finally.

Eni Selfo: They didn't have the language barrier and they felt like I can talk about what was going on in my life with someone else in my native language and that feels incredible.

Eni Selfo: yeah something else that we discovered so was that we always gave a lot of importance to the authors, because obviously they are trending and they have so much to share, but what the Community started loving is when they were put on the spotlight.

Eni Selfo: yeah so now there, it was Community lead obviously they couldn't count anymore, and all of these big names they started sharing each other's knowledge wisdom and bringing each other on stage quote Unquote.

Eni Selfo: On the virtual stage and that's what they really loved because we started feeling scene and in the spotlight with what they had to bring to the game.

Eni Selfo: Now all of that, we are looking at how do we create a platform where we can enable Community even more so obviously some of the trends can we look at a.

Eni Selfo: Matching with what we're doing, can we look at creating smaller groups where people choose themselves, as I said, based on language, based on the time zone that they are so they don't have to wait for an event to meet.

Eni Selfo: each other, they can actually take the journey, no more facilitated way among themselves.

Eni Selfo: And that was also one of the things that we learned throughout these years was we took ourselves out of the picture, more and more as Community managers and we let the Community lead themselves through their own transformation.

Chris Detzel: So tools and things like that to do that yeah.

Eni Selfo: yeah yeah and our Ambassador program our super user program has been the biggest pillar of my department, since forever basically because he became impossible to be able to because this Community speaks about such emotional topics.

Eni Selfo: They demand.

Eni Selfo: A level of witnessing of their transformation there it's impossible we're talking, today, we have over 80,000 members in our membership you can't you unless the whole team becomes a Community team you just cannot do that, and that was that was one of the biggest investments.

Chris Detzel: So you don't have a choice but to be Community lead in a lot of ways right like it's it's kind of a buzzword today and I it's, not that I don't disagree that Community shouldn't be Community lead.

Chris Detzel: But I mean you know, like when I look at companies like mine is sometimes I know what the Community needs in the beginning, and then you just let it grow to kind of.

Chris Detzel: See how it forms right, you know, like, and I think that you know a lot of organizations, believe it or not, it's it's pretty much community to learn now if you don't allow it.

Chris Detzel: The way I see it, is, if you don't have you know content that is relevant that's engaging that's helpful to them.

Chris Detzel: And that's when you fell right and if you're not consistent at it and if you're not listening to those users, over time, then you know there's definitely a Community lead but.

Chris Detzel: You know if you continue down the path of you know whiners I love how you're you have a lot of Members and their sounds like they're super engaged and.

Chris Detzel: you're giving them the tools to be more Community lead as it gets bigger and as times have changed a little bit, hopefully, you can become a little bit more.

Chris Detzel: You know, organized or event focused again where it's face to face but there's still going to be some of that.

Chris Detzel: Both virtual and route, which is kind of a good thing, think about it, like.

Chris Detzel: A lot of times when you go to these onsite events it's hard to get those people into the the online Community space, you know and start talking to each other about those experiences.

Chris Detzel: last two years, like or not we're all forced to kind of think about things virtually in in that way you know, and I think.

Chris Detzel: To me it's kind of good I mean it changed a lot of things like here in the US online groceries that that was thought about 10 years ago, but they just couldn't figure it out and do it, but.

Chris Detzel: Now it's a thing, like you can get everything online and do everything online, so you know communities have been online for a long time, but how do you bring that offline to online and so sounds like you guys did so anyways this is fascinating and keep going if you have other stuff because.

Chris Detzel: This is i'm just loving it.

Eni Selfo: Well, so I have to admit, Chris so you know we were talking me a new at the beginning in the pre show.

Eni Selfo: yeah about this video you saw about where I was talking about the importance of activating hearts in Community rather than platforms and I absolutely stand to that steel and I have to compliment that by saying that the biggest challenge i've had.

Eni Selfo: Once all of these hearts in our communities i've been activated when you don't have the proper platform.

Eni Selfo: To their allows for these micro gatherings are choosing each other or Convent through the Community, so you really find your person in there.

Eni Selfo: That was very tricky in the past two years, because that synchronicity that would happen in advance, where you just see each other and you're like I feel you I feel you're like me and you really have to talk let's go let's grab a beer.

Eni Selfo: yeah replicating that in the online.

Eni Selfo: World okta's.

yeah.

Eni Selfo: kinda right exactly.

Eni Selfo: That was that was quite tricky so i'm looking forward this year to see more development on the tech side for for my knowledge, so we can get that synchronicity happening in the online world with the same.

Eni Selfo: Not with the same strength, maybe, but with a similar pattern of what we see in our events.

Chris Detzel: yeah and I think you know I think the positive is hopefully code is kind of going away ish maybe never goes away but we've learned to live with it in some ways.

Chris Detzel: You know, and then you can do a little bit of blended you know and, obviously, for you guys was amazing events are going to be probably crucial you know, to get back going, you know I would think just because it sounds like a lot of fun, do you guys use as.

Chris Detzel: A platform that allows to do allows you to do that that's outside of mine Valley, or is there some.

Eni Selfo: I you mean for hybrid events or.

Chris Detzel: yeah yeah do you use kind of something there to track different things and allow people to connect and all that kind of stuff.

Eni Selfo: We are currently looking at bevy as as our potential platform for that's probably going to be, to be honest, I found it an extraordinary platform that was built for Community managers.

Eni Selfo: yeah my point of view it's a dream come true so let's see now that we're going to kick off the offline strategy with these mini gatherings around the word Community lead.

Eni Selfo: Then we will definitely be looking at Okay, how can we optimize these technology wise and make it easier for our community to advertise their own events.

Eni Selfo: And a bevy.

Eni Selfo: ticked all the boxes in that sense, but we, the majority of our tech is built in house.

Eni Selfo: Okay, yes, because it's built around the our own APP and the content so that's also what has made it a little bit slower in terms of development, because the integration with the existing infrastructure system user.

Eni Selfo: it's all right oh yeah.

Chris Detzel: Well anytime you have.

Chris Detzel: You know you build your own one is when you have your own product, for example, and people use it somehow some way integrating that into a third party platform is.

Chris Detzel: is always tough and the reason is is because it might not have been built for that at first right and so now the the engineers and things like that can I have to go back and do some things inside the platform, and you know and that takes a while, but.

Chris Detzel: But you know the nice thing about these third party technologies for the most part is that they can connect one way or another, through api's are some other ways, you know to.

Chris Detzel: it's still not easy right like you know how do you like, when you think of you know salesforce it's kind of the easiest way to think about it is you know when.

Chris Detzel: Like I use a company called higher logic for my online Community platform and.

Chris Detzel: You know, like you've said, our forums, they do a lot of the same stuff so I mean you know that's it's important but it's not.

Chris Detzel: The single most important thing and and I really loved how you mentioned the hearts, or the.

Chris Detzel: But you know you still some great news about technology to manage it and stuff like that.

Chris Detzel: And so you know fat can connect directly to salesforce and push like the engagement things that you want, you know, like, I was looking at this thing the other day.

Chris Detzel: To where I know i'm getting off a little bit, but you know my assumption is that we can do some of these things to into your platform and or you know in.

Chris Detzel: Your CRM and things like that to bring engagement numbers into salesforce to where it now, you can create this dashboard in salesforce or.

Chris Detzel: You know, in your product or whatever you know so people can see at the end of the day.

Chris Detzel: You know, these people are engaging these people aren't These are the things that we're doing you know these are the people we need to go with because of our super user program we now have more insights and things like that night now other can have.

Chris Detzel: access to that information so that you don't have to do all these presentations internally to always.

Chris Detzel: know somebody else to.

Chris Detzel: You know, so at the end of the day, make your life easier, the better.

Chris Detzel: And I like that so.

Eni Selfo: All about them dashboards.

Chris Detzel: it's always about the dashboard.

Eni Selfo: you've talked to a lot of Community builders and i'm wondering was there is there, someone that you've talked to that you felt really had this part figured out when he came on these online offline Roi measuring was there, someone that really stood out for you.

Chris Detzel: can pick a few folks kind of stand out.

Chris Detzel: This guy Scott wilder he's he's a leader in the Community space for a long time he's actually going to be on piers over beers later today.

Chris Detzel: Again, so he's been on here's i'm a beer super smart dude he he doesn't have it all figured out, but none of us do but he's done some really cool things in the past and into the future.

Chris Detzel: At the company's at now, so I think he would be a good person to talk to, I think that you know when you look at folks like Nicole Saunders from.

Chris Detzel: zendesk so she's the director of Community there, she has.

Chris Detzel: You know user groups, she has an online Community she has those things and other things that you know operate she's building she is an operational person that kind of builds those dashboards and things like that so that's a person.

Eni Selfo: That sounds like a dream come true.

Chris Detzel: takes time, I mean she has a team of four or five people right, you know and.

Chris Detzel: Over time she can start, I mean she looked she she started all the way from just her you know and so over time she's starting to build a team that.

Chris Detzel: Has those people, and I think the key is is is that you can't do this alone, so at the very least, you have to find somebody in the organization to partner with to help you do that right so.

Chris Detzel: Like to me when I started looking at that, so I now report into the CMO directly, so the chief marketing officer.

Chris Detzel: And so the nice thing about them, or about that team is that they have this really nice the nice thing about digital when you think of like you know, the main website they're always.

Chris Detzel: unique data data data and they're always connecting systems together to get the data, and all this stuff so we have a guy that does a lot and i'm trying to get on his radar which knows it he knows me well, but.

Chris Detzel: To help build some of those things and there's this other operational guy within marketing that i'm partnering with his slowly but surely pushing like I do a ton of.

Chris Detzel: Virtual events that go deep inside our product show people certain things so when people register for an event that goes directly into mark no but that then goes into salesforce to now start looking at and it's just fairly new start looking at.

Chris Detzel: When an active customer uses the product, you know, or you know, is there is there kind of similarities, or is there something there to say they're buying more because they are Community influenced a potential upsell cross sell or renewal, you know what I mean.

Chris Detzel: yeah and then are we getting leads directly from the Community itself, you know from the event that i'm doing and stuff like that so i'm starting to do some of that, but I think that.

Chris Detzel: You know, slow going because they have other priorities and I don't have a full time person to do that so.

Eni Selfo: Yes, that's a that's always it feels to me that fight is always.

Eni Selfo: We don't have the data, therefore, it becomes hard to prove the business value, but because we didn't have the business value then we're never in the priority list and there's always something that is easier to measure that prioritize faster so.

Chris Detzel: Just.

Eni Selfo: kind of believe everyone's travel we community.

Chris Detzel: yeah and I think you just and I don't have all the answers, but I do think you just got to continue to push you know, and you know, at the end of the day, you know as I heard once a year, say look.

Chris Detzel: You know I just know it's valuable you know i'm not saying that you should you know show some value and things like that, but.

Chris Detzel: You know there's just something you can't track, you know you can't track every little thing i'm not saying you shouldn't track things and try to get to.

Chris Detzel: A perfect place you know, like you look at some of these support communities they're tracking you know case deflection or call deflection whatever you want to call it.

Chris Detzel: that's hard enough, you know.

Chris Detzel: it's funny because you start talking to these some of these Community managers that are a little bit younger oh us to case deflection was a thing it's actually a really big opportunity there, so I wouldn't call it just a thing.

Chris Detzel: And I would say.

Chris Detzel: that's a huge Roi you know you start building the Community around that at first, you know i'm talking about like this little different Community there but.

Chris Detzel: Point is is like that piece is tough and you know if you just keep working at it, it will take years, maybe you'll never get there, but.

Chris Detzel: It is important, you know because here's the here's what happens is your leaders sometimes leave right and you're there to then.

Chris Detzel: kind of, say, what is the value, then you got people that don't understand community and then you're like what is the value again, and if you have the proper Roi well.

Chris Detzel: here's what we've done last year here's one of the last few months, what boom boom boom like Oh, maybe we'll keep this you know what I mean.

Chris Detzel: yeah it's just the way that life is you know four or five years down the road you doing awesome doing all this stuff get a new CEO get a new leader in CMO I don't know whatever you put into they want to change everything you know.

Eni Selfo: And that's really the cool stuff So there are a lot of into mind rally would be probably boxed into the Ad tech type of business.

Eni Selfo: And this is the one thing that we're extremely proud about there are not many at tech companies out there that get 1000 people to fly into a city to be together for three weeks, I think.

Eni Selfo: The only one who is managed through to get something together and we know we know for a fact that communities, our competitive advantage is just that it's the lowly.

Eni Selfo: gets created to the with the brand it's something that it's incredibly hard to measure, as you said.

Eni Selfo: How do you measure your customers shine in their eyes when they walk out of the event, you don't it's what UK Okay, you can have MPs, you can see how many of them were turner's you can see how many of them I don't know.

Chris Detzel: The emotional part is hard to.

Eni Selfo: capture that you can't you cannot and that's what makes them state it is really seeing how their eyes are shining on the under one event that makes them have a bond mind valley that they cannot compare to any other company out there.

Eni Selfo: So that's really.

Eni Selfo: To me, whenever I think about these week, as you said, we all know, we all know, because I mean I don't think coursera or you demi can claim that you know they're bringing together.

Eni Selfo: 1000 people for three weeks to live together and experience life together that's quite a bold claim on our side.

Eni Selfo: Even though they're incredibly incredible companies that we often look up to when it comes to what they're doing in the industry, but it is community, the one thing that to me, is it really sets us apart.

Chris Detzel: I think that you know it's hard to it's hard to capture the emotion, I agree, but you know with video out there, and you know writing certain things case studies or you know quotes seems like a fairly.

Chris Detzel: easy thing to do, especially after they come off that high you capture like right after you know the last day hey look 20 people line up quote here quote their video here video there you know what I mean like.

Eni Selfo: It is.

Chris Detzel: Actually, so.

Eni Selfo: I didn't mention actually Chris but big part of Community value for the company didn't mention about this, we have something there is called the stories platform.

Eni Selfo: We gather the stories of transformation or, also known as.

Eni Selfo: testimonials we have 15,000 of them.

Chris Detzel: So you're not lacking any.

Chris Detzel: that's awesome I love it.

Eni Selfo: So we have literally a person who is called the tribe storyteller and her role.

Chris Detzel: is to be able to find.

Eni Selfo: More I know I know.

Eni Selfo: he's come up with some like interest in the name, so the tribe storyteller.

Chris Detzel: But feature.

Eni Selfo: 15,000 people sharing this is how my life has transformed since find valley that's talk about advocacy with your customers as a business value that can come out of community.

Eni Selfo: I mean obviously marketing loves all of the stories.

Eni Selfo: yeah what's really cool is because the volume is so high, imagine that, for example, you're in the US, and when you go into our website, you see.

Eni Selfo: transformation stories that come from the US exclusively.

Eni Selfo: And for me, I see other Italians were living in Estonian talking about how my values change their lives so.

Eni Selfo: Again, there are many things that we can measure when it comes to how powerful this Community building East from a business perspective it's just the thing that I found the hardest is isolating the DS is exclusively because of community.

Chris Detzel: yeah yeah this stuff oh yeah just you know.

Chris Detzel: there's one I don't know if you know who rich Martinez.

Eni Selfo: I love.

Eni Selfo: Just like my go to person for.

Chris Detzel: Community.

Eni Selfo: he's clever thing i've learned about data driven Community management, I always read so absolutely.

Chris Detzel: So he has this case study out there, which you know is kind of dangerous but.

Chris Detzel: This company was willing to turn off in this case seo you know because there's an online Community so and to where when people search they didn't.

Chris Detzel: They couldn't find what they're looking for from the Community now you still have people that knew to go to the Community, so that never changed, but a bulk of that traffic came directly from seo or you know, Google search and so.

Chris Detzel: it's important because they turned it off right, I think it was six months and the cases went up and everything else, and so there was a direct link to value of Community whenever seo was turned on.

Chris Detzel: To when it was turned off to where you know cases went skyrocket up and everything else he never.

Chris Detzel: told me who it was but.

Chris Detzel: That case study was phenomenal and you know they can tie Roi they could tie dollars to it, and everything else, so you know, the question is what happens when you turn off community.

Chris Detzel: Right, you know i'm not saying to do that, because you know it'd be a tough one, but you know if he turned it off, you know if you just think about turning it off, and you can present that thing well what if we turn it off.

Chris Detzel: Well yeah, what do you think would happen if we turned off community, so no more case studies, no more trips, no more.

Chris Detzel: People talking to each other, you know, so I think when you put in perspective at the end of the day, you know.

Chris Detzel: And then have those testimonials those those are really a good thing, and I think that you know let's just keep that in mind, especially what you've built there is phenomenal from what I can tell from what you've said, and you know i'm amazed and I want to go on one of these trips.

Eni Selfo: yeah we we have two coming up soon so.

Eni Selfo: we're gonna go through Jordan in May, and then we are repeating the experience in Estonia in July, so there are two big events coming up, and you know the other thing Chris was in the story, there are in the history of me in mind Valley.

Eni Selfo: yeah one of the things that we've seen contributes very positively in terms of business value was community.

Eni Selfo: being mentioned many times in our MPs scores as positive, like even like two or three points extreme MPs exclusively due to Community because actually when you look at transformation, there are some very strong studies on how do you deliver transformation through.

Eni Selfo: Content experiences and there are five elements.

Eni Selfo: they're very academic like a critical reflection and etc, etc, there are five of them.

Eni Selfo: But not the number three is called social discourse and it basically if you want to do a transformative experience to your customers.

Eni Selfo: There has to be a space where they're sharing their experiences, and that is what social discourse is about so luckily for me in a way.

Eni Selfo: We cannot we're in the business of transformation, it cannot we know for through academic of studies that it is impossible to deliver transformation, unless you include social discourse into that.

Eni Selfo: And that requires sharing among peers that are undertaking the same journey so, even though there is no number attached, we were at least we have big academic saying that these works for what you guys want to.

Eni Selfo: Do for your brand from is you gotta do community.

Chris Detzel: love it, this is this didn't really great really appreciate you coming on today and.

Chris Detzel: you've got me inspired you know it's I asked about the events.

Chris Detzel: Because i'm thinking about so not to bring this background on me, but I was thinking about that too, so I wanted to to dive into that a little bit more to kind of think about how I want to structure.

Chris Detzel: You know my CEO said this to me yesterday it was literally yesterday and so it's it's got me thinking a lot, and this is timely conversation for me personally and and mark was he said so yesterday I had this ask me anything as a virtual that and.

Chris Detzel: It was with our cto and founder not our CEO but our cto and founder and you know I think we had 110 people on the, which to me was pretty good but.

Chris Detzel: You know a little over half of those were employees and the rest 50 or 60 or you know customers partners and prospects that can step up oh that's pretty good you said, well, am I see, I see a different site and he goes I think events and Community driven events.

Chris Detzel: should bring should be bringing non employees, we should be bringing thousands literally thousands a year.

Chris Detzel: of people to events thousands, we should have hundreds of events that allows us to bring these thousands of people here, you know it wasn't a direct kind of.

Chris Detzel: thing to me, you know, is it was directing to me because he believes on the guy to lead it, but you know it's to the organization to say you know.

Chris Detzel: These events these kind of connections these it could be onsite could be virtual we need more, we need to do more, we need to bring more people to.

Chris Detzel: To start building that brand equity building that brand kind of awareness and things like that that's what you guys have done, which I think is phenomenal here I mean you've you've done an amazing job, and thank you for sharing today.

Eni Selfo: Thank you, Chris and I really have to actually acknowledge that a lot of this work was initiated and happened for many years exclusively run by our events team.

Eni Selfo: So Community was born after in mind valley has a department.

Eni Selfo: But events team was already on it for almost half a decade, by the time.

Eni Selfo: I was born and bring in this magic together, so a lot of what we have learned when it comes to that was driven by our events team learning how to deliver magic.

Eni Selfo: Yes, quite an interesting formula, and I hope you guys will will figure out your own peers over beers how you are your own in magic formula when you bring people together.

Chris Detzel: yeah This is great here thanks so much for coming on piers over beers i'm Chris Seattle and.

Eni Selfo: Thank you, Chris and um any cell phone.

Eni Selfo: Thank you so much, and hope to see you soon done.

me too.