Episode 092- Jephtah Abu- Inclusive, Diversity, and Equity within Community

Chris Detzel: Alright, thanks everyone for another peers over beers my name is Chris Detzel, and I do have another special guest Jephtah do, can I say that right Jephtah.

Jephtah Abu: yeah you did Jeff boo.

boo.

Jephtah Abu: boo.

Jephtah Abu: boo yes okay.

Yes.

Chris Detzel: hey you know I want to have you on again so we'll definitely if you want to come on later again then we'll do it and i'll make sure to see your name properly, the first time, or what I like to do actually.

Chris Detzel: is just say my name and then.

Chris Detzel: hand it off to you to let you say your name that's easier.

Jephtah Abu: But.

I think.

Jephtah Abu: I think we, I think we should have done.

Jephtah Abu: Was cool.

Jephtah Abu: that's it that's my.

students.

Chris Detzel: So Jeff let's do this and start over all right ready Hello everyone thanks thanks for coming to another peers over beers my name is Chris Daniel and.

Jephtah Abu: JESSICA.

Chris Detzel: Nice to meet you JESSICA slattery.

Jephtah Abu: Also, yes, you did I love the way you change your tone it sounds so it makes it sound more mysterious but yeah I love it Jeff.

Jephtah Abu: that's my name.

Chris Detzel: Well, welcome to appears over beers I really appreciate you coming on today.

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Jephtah Abu: Okay, I don't think that I have my be over here, but I would definitely like I think you have your as well if he goes by as well.

Chris Detzel: Well it's 8am my time here in Dallas Texas, and I have a coffee and i've been drinking coffee all morning already so I don't drink beer at 8am what time were you located and what time is it yeah.

Jephtah Abu: i'm in Lagos Nigeria in Africa and it's like three feet 10pm over here, so it is a lot around oh.

Chris Detzel: yeah beer beers holly it's a little early I think for beer there too right, I mean it's Friday so it's not unheard of.

Chris Detzel: You know that's really cool you know it's funny because I think he reached out to me about I don't know it's a month ago, or so, you know about being on piers over beers and.

Chris Detzel: I feel like it's probably been about six months, though, that you just came on the scene of the Community space, or at least you know I started senior like Dan and you know you've done a really good job of.

Chris Detzel: You know socializing yourself and getting out there, and you know speaking and things like that and.

Chris Detzel: You know it's amazing to me is is that you're fairly young and they Community industry and but but I mean you've been kind of doing some of this for a while, but as a job I think you're fairly young in that.

Chris Detzel: But I think you've done an amazing job so far so i'm really excited to have this conversation with you today.

Jephtah Abu: Before we say that i'm always like well it won't be the experience and also it just takes me back to the beginning or something people don't know is that i'm very shy.

Jephtah Abu: Like i'm This is basically it says it's crazy, like all over the place, talking.

Jephtah Abu: Like being at events and I realized that sometimes your passion of our ways like your character says like i'm too passionate about this to be too quiet.

Jephtah Abu: I find myself like leaving my comfort zone daily and, unlike always take a pause on me like.

Jephtah Abu: Just to that that just talks about pressing ways, like the partial us for me to like keep on going keep on reading my comfort zone so yeah it's fun as well, like meeting people talking about what I believe in and also teaching and also learning at the same time.

Chris Detzel: I love that and sometimes I think you know I, I think we all, you know, want to move our passion forward to move our career forward to do things that we've never done before it's always a little scary.

Chris Detzel: But you know what I think that if you continue to do those kinds of things you will just blossom into you know stay out of your comfort zone, a little bit.

Chris Detzel: And you'll you'll blossom to be something amazing for yourself, you know what I mean, and I think that to me that's important because you know is is they kind of look at it as a little story about me is you know I I grew up in a pretty tough.

Chris Detzel: You know my parents did drugs and Trent you know were alcoholics so not peers over beers i'm not an alcoholic but you know, so I.

Chris Detzel: I didn't grow up in a great home or a great environment, but you know if you persevere you focus you kind of get out there, you know, I think that you'll be okay, and I love that I love that story so.

Chris Detzel: I know, today, you want to talk a little bit about how you included the inclusiveness of you know, Community and things like that tell me a little bit more about that.

Jephtah Abu: very excited to hear yeah yeah so I guess everyone knows or most people don't know i'm very passionate about de.

Jephtah Abu: De so di be is basically diversity equity inclusion and belonging and I chose this but.

Jephtah Abu: funny enough i've been doing diversity equity and inclusion advocates even before it was named because i've worked with brands like from China us UK so always notice as a person of color.

Jephtah Abu: It was a special or not i'll use the word special for those the way I was treated compared to people from the US by sort of internalized.

Jephtah Abu: And I realized that Okay, this was in right up very well and i'm always talking about my key I don't think this is right, I remember, I worked for one Chinese company.

Jephtah Abu: Name we tell it obviously and I told them that's Okay, I feel like this is wrong because the Ad they wanted to do was targeted towards black Americans and i'm like I feel like this is offensive and the person told me what I was saying didn't make sense and i'm like okay.

Chris Detzel: Does that make sense yeah okay.

Jephtah Abu: And i've gotten too heated arguments and i'm like bro, this is not.

Jephtah Abu: Like greg's enough, I always have always not locating, then I just thought it was a recent score that Oh, this is diversity equity and inclusion something i've been doing.

Jephtah Abu: Even when I was a child, like when I see something that is wrong that always wants to speak up and one of my favorites puts advice on if you stay silent in the middle of oppression your sided with the oppressor she's like there's no middle ground is either for or against.

Jephtah Abu: It a change things I don't like we're wrong so in terms of Community a lot of people around the world inclusion diversity.

Jephtah Abu: equity what's the summary summary of everything is just teach human spending like, if I could see what is normal diversity equity and inclusion is just about cheating in my training.

Jephtah Abu: by treating them fairly you create a sense of belonging and that's something that you can't sort of there's no marketing strategy around it is either.

Jephtah Abu: walk on intentionally or you don't because you see during the black lives matter protest when George was modeled a lot of brands cannot answer.

Jephtah Abu: We are black lives matter for like it would change their profile picture people put black, but you could see that a lot of people see that Okay, so it was just the cheap like gimmick.

Jephtah Abu: Some brands caught some brands are being called a racist comments were retreat is about black lives matter, so you could tell it was in Jen win so let's reflect that back to like Community building.

Jephtah Abu: Like i've been in so many communities, our retreat about is, I think, very positive back this up most Community managers come from the US, I think cms report we said about 70% that was this year last year was 74%.

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Jephtah Abu: So imagine like 30% from other countries let's say you have 20% from Canada, so you have only 10% left or your mentor sure that between.

Jephtah Abu: Africa India like differently so you can imagine that there's not much visibility in the Community space, so, while Community managers are like creating strategies around engagement.

Jephtah Abu: Like our first conversation they always have this mindset of less due to excessive back of people and they forget that communities are not just one person, a groupie I feel like I always say an active Community is a group of is a community that has.

Jephtah Abu: Diverse folks inside and this diverse books are allowed to contribute and engage in ideas or programs, in a way that you feel comfortable in because you might have a community.

Jephtah Abu: You might have one black person in your Community might have one nation that doesn't make you diverse just makes you exactly.

yeah.

Jephtah Abu: It just makes you a Community with one black person.

Jephtah Abu: yeah like so, but when this person of color is allowed to like contribute ideas.

Jephtah Abu: That way there's diversity in your Community so it's like from the onset.

Jephtah Abu: From your onboarding strategy to the events your panelists, for example, i've gone through like a lot of being part of a lot of communities where is the same on one instruction like okay come on board introduce yourself, where do you come from, and that is it.

Jephtah Abu: seems like the same thing, but you give giving people the ability to talk more about themselves like to diversity, for example, which I don't know I think fourth of july's the popularity then us.

Jephtah Abu: In Nigeria, we have Independence Day, we have enough of these are special tools for most communities obtained, there are no platforms to stop about your holidays there's no plus comes talk about food in your country as apart from the.

Jephtah Abu: Talk about yourself.

Jephtah Abu: it's just the basic your name, where you're from your hobbies and it's a US thing because.

Jephtah Abu: it's like most companies are heavily dominated by the US folks so they are used to like having this sort of like onboarding starts with you so definitely conversations about themselves como la MIA from Nigeria or.

Jephtah Abu: Talk about this, my name, where i'm from and my hobbies but there's so much bad not spoken about the example my favorite for the Nigeria there's so much music in there, and you see.

Jephtah Abu: The onboarding strategy should cover all those things, then obviously events like I always say highlighting special events for people have imagined I like say.

Jephtah Abu: For example, we have private moments in the US, you have black history month like this things and giving people opportunities like celebrate these.

Jephtah Abu: holidays in your community is also a good way like these are just some rough drafts that you have made, because if you want to actually be diverse it takes a lot of work like a crawl walk well yeah I don't know if I answered your question.

Chris Detzel: or.

Jephtah Abu: You did we can talk about this for.

Chris Detzel: Now, think about what you said, and you know.

Chris Detzel: I think that you know when you go back to the kind of the black lives matter, and you know how folks kind of really you know to some degrees.

Chris Detzel: To them, they were standing behind like you know George floyd right like they didn't you know they were against you know police brutality all that stuff but you know, maybe it was just kind of a.

Chris Detzel: I think you tell me if i'm wrong because you know you.

Chris Detzel: You have to probably live this more than I do right, as you know.

Chris Detzel: Caucasian I don't I can't.

Chris Detzel: easily just I can only listen more so than.

Chris Detzel: You know, then give direct opinion, but what it felt like to me was yes, I think there was a lot of on the surface stuff you know they just kind of want to look at hey black lives matter you know that's great you know and that kind of stuff.

Chris Detzel: But you know I did see I think there was some positives about some of that right like it one way or another, it brought a lot of light to you know the.

Chris Detzel: police brutality within the USA, you know I mean you started to see COPs be you know prosecuted and it's not enough i'm not saying it is.

Chris Detzel: But you're starting to see more and more that unfortunately it's not enough and it's still happening in the US, but you know.

Chris Detzel: Change doesn't happen overnight, you know what I mean, and so I think there was some positive stuff but you're right, I think that you know some brands is did it just hey I want to get more exposure on, you know that kind of stuff and then, when you start thinking about.

Chris Detzel: Communities like when I think about my Community it's it's.

Chris Detzel: I don't want to give an excuse, I do feel like it's a little bit harder, because when you think of the tech industry and things like that.

Chris Detzel: You know I don't go out of my way to I don't care what color somebody is I just try to welcome people in, however, they are and you're right some of that stuff that you're saying is.

Chris Detzel: You know, some of these tactics that people drive from you know hey what's your name, where you're from Okay, what do you do, you know that kind of stuff I mean it's very.

Chris Detzel: Basic yep.

Chris Detzel: So I don't disagree with.

Chris Detzel: Anything that you said, I mean you know I think it's it's very interesting and very.

Chris Detzel: And I like how you're kind of bring this out and the other pieces, I thought that for a long time, you said.

Chris Detzel: You know, most people that are Community managers, for example, i've been in the US and that's been for a long time, and just say recently is probably the last two or three maybe four years he started seeing.

Chris Detzel: Community matter your roles within you know UK or a little bit in France, or you know in.

Chris Detzel: India you're starting to see it now, you know and but it's it hasn't been all that much except for recently you're starting to see it kind of take off and you'd be in Canada.

Chris Detzel: First, it feels like at first person I know in Africa.

Chris Detzel: is huge.

Chris Detzel: yeah yeah.

Jephtah Abu: Can I tell you something funny not actually funny well mind blowing we have over 4000 Community managers in Nigeria.

Jephtah Abu: Just ranger a low, so I think that's a lot and it takes me back to why was that they've been like so.

Jephtah Abu: active in this space we have about 4000 Community manager as well, we have only like 10 or 15 that have blue acquisitions.

Jephtah Abu: And it's never really a matter of like talent or skill, because definitely this coming to money does have big words in terms of like exposure and what companies are used to because I call that we put earlier that.

Jephtah Abu: The Community managers in Nigeria that rather than classify this Community managers on that or does because you have us, you have injure you up or down So what does is like a survey up.

Jephtah Abu: And coming to money doesn't like your field or do anything, not to just classify them as badass which I thought was very wrong.

Jephtah Abu: And assuming those blocks like inclusive language, because if a company sees this they automatically think you know Community managers in Nigeria, Africa and then just telling you know.

Jephtah Abu: 4000.

Chris Detzel: that's a lot.

Jephtah Abu: And even that's it so it's like, why are we not having the rules i'm like the first person.

Jephtah Abu: That you know I still active in the space when it comes to Community manager, maybe I think in Nigeria Dems bailey's like the most popular.

Jephtah Abu: Like you can see a lot of work for actual Community managers, you can see people that have Google positions and it's changing people are starting to get.

Jephtah Abu: Like with programs like cms masterclass see school, like you, on come on like this communities like you're seeing every day, I mean.

Jephtah Abu: cms is like as a community for Community manager, I see more and more nigeria's joining and it's like I might have touched on diving realizing it like by being destructive.

Jephtah Abu: So it's like we have the Community managers, we have talent so it's like, how do we now get people to know that.

Jephtah Abu: Community managers in the injury that prevented so that's when it usually comes up that's when we have this event, we have this programs, we have this like talks about like i'm sure like if I tell anyone that 4000 conjunctivitis i'm like wow really.

Jephtah Abu: And that's just in one country in Africa see emerging like Gala to go South Africa or that i've met with a commitment dancing all around Africa.

Jephtah Abu: Yes, it's just it's just funny when I have to say, there are no Committee, and it does not done like hey we have about 4000.

Chris Detzel: At least that's interesting because it's not that's not really well known and maybe it's it's not well known in the US anyways right and.

Chris Detzel: You know I think people like you, maybe it just takes somebody like you to start really kind of.

Chris Detzel: Talking about it, you know getting out there, like on these podcasts that you're already doing and.

Chris Detzel: And, and then like you said, I mean cms is just one place, but maybe there's places in Nigeria or others like cms I don't know I mean.

Chris Detzel: Maybe there's an opportunity for you know exposure on those kinds of things, because you know what are these Community managers doing you know is their tech companies that their community is there, you know what.

Chris Detzel: I don't even know like you know what is a strategy look like for them it's the same, I mean if they're going to cms and you know they have some of the same beliefs, that we do on how to build a Community you know strategy roadmap, all these things engagement tactics that.

Chris Detzel: You do to get.

Chris Detzel: people engaged now I can stop right.

Jephtah Abu: yeah yeah definitely it's like.

Jephtah Abu: I realized that when I look at events programs people always like Okay, we have like a resource or a good to book, we can use to learn about the and i'm like.

Jephtah Abu: yeah it's one thing to like implement steps, but it's another thing to be like intentional about it, I think, someone says only that.

Jephtah Abu: Even if you are passionate about the if, like sea level or management is not you're just trying to rob the circles, because they literally will not see the importance of it and you end up being blocked.

Jephtah Abu: So it's like i'm even like heads up i'm working on the resource.

Jephtah Abu: Like for Community managers who are interested in implementing like diverse and inclusive strategies in our Community, because I feel like it's important.

Jephtah Abu: So we have events you have programs, you have inclusive language you have literally a lot of things are is a lot of work that's why you cannot fake it.

Jephtah Abu: Like you cannot fake it you it's like I said it's it will shape is genuine, so I think he just brings up spark tonight, what is the goal, or why are you interested in di.

Jephtah Abu: I think that's why I always ask people whenever they come because the first step is like as a Caucasian acknowledging that we all have biases even means, if I have by us like.

Jephtah Abu: Some things I see well how do you like have controlled by not really control or how do you put it in such a way that it doesn't affect your judgment towards.

yeah.

Jephtah Abu: So it's like I always say acknowledge it in a place of privilege as a vocation, as in person of color if I come to America.

Jephtah Abu: There are definitely some things that are experienced that you will not experience and these folks are these people that are Caucasians in America in a piece of bar.

Jephtah Abu: And it talks about everything we tried a carefully about the Community like major committees are joined, I feel like i've not seen any person of color like know say to anyone, they are also in communities, but i've not seen one person of color as a community manager.

Jephtah Abu: And these are big community, so the Community spaces like heavily dominated by.

Jephtah Abu: People from the US and I can't blame them, because obviously Community started like blowing up from the US, before I started like point out other countries, but all i'm saying is that also get people from like people of color MTV dharma marginalized opportunities also tell your story.

Chris Detzel: it's a good point because that you know, as you can I bring that up i'm like who do I know of color that our community leaders here in the US Marjorie Anderson.

Chris Detzel: that's telling.

Jephtah Abu: us like.

Jephtah Abu: Margie Ronaldo.

Jephtah Abu: i'm actually like this are people like I just.

Chris Detzel: yeah I know who she is.

Jephtah Abu: yeah yeah.

Jephtah Abu: yeah yeah let's continue on it's like okay well if you mentioned people Caucasian the list to go on.

Jephtah Abu: And I literally wrote a book.

Jephtah Abu: I don't know if you saw it a book on like you guys for Community managers that has all the resources, you need and that's always complaining least I could see the difference like we have about like 2020 jobs are Caucasian we have only like six of color so.

Chris Detzel: I have to tell a story, and you know I think this is relevant to our conversation is like.

Chris Detzel: When I look at, so I live in Dallas and we have communities of runners and everything else and.

Chris Detzel: I own this this one group called Dallas dfw running group I think there's like 3500 people and things like that, and just one guy he always posts about you know some of his running experiences, you know he's African American and.

Chris Detzel: You know and he's part of this other running group because mine's just more of a Facebook group, you know when we don't meet or anything like that it's just kind of try to inspire each other.

Chris Detzel: But I was looking at the group that he actually goes run with and it's rare you know to see just a whole group of.

Chris Detzel: African American runners like I would say 90% of it and there's like 40 or 50 of them getting together running together, and I was like well you know the groups that i'm part of yes there's all different colors but it's not it's predominantly Caucasian I mean.

Chris Detzel: And, and I thought you know, so I thought that might have been relevant to you know, I was thinking about that because I knew we had this call coming up and I thought, how can I do a better job, specifically in that group, you know, to promote.

Chris Detzel: Diversity and inclusion and things like that, because I just post running stuff you know and and I allow I don't.

Chris Detzel: Care who comes in right but I probably could do a better job of promoting these people that are of color and things like that to see their experiences and stuff like that and.

Chris Detzel: i'm sure I don't do enough, you know and i'm not sure of a strategy on how to do that in my own, you know B2B community that I run a relative you know what I mean.

Jephtah Abu: Yes, I mean.

Chris Detzel: it's definitely piqued my interest is probably will read that resource to get that better for me.

Jephtah Abu: yeah it's will be out definitely be out next month or any communication early June and we're talking, it makes like you made me think of a common misconception, everyone has about.

Jephtah Abu: Like, especially in the US now shemesh on the Islamic doctrine erase like racial identity and ethnicity, like Okay, the end workspace but as i'm on this journey and i'm talking to people I realized that diversity means a lot to a lot of people.

Chris Detzel: yeah.

Jephtah Abu: there's diversity of thought diversity of sexual orientation, mental and physical i've been easy, I can try everything you can talk to like five people from five different countries and they'll tell you five different things about diversity and that's okay.

Jephtah Abu: Because you know everyone has their own diverse stance on that is not harmful to.

Jephtah Abu: cause, I think, acknowledging that is like one of the biggest things I had to do, because in Nigeria diversity is like governed by culture and tradition likewise very traditional country like well like I mentioned my name like we are deep.

Chris Detzel: rooted in me and.

Jephtah Abu: Like cultural everything but we ignore other aspect terms of diversity in terms of like sexual orientation in terms of like.

Jephtah Abu: Gender like ever that and that was just one spectrum few well as I wanted to learn more about the hybrid start to leave like what I knew and online it's another learned what that really means a lot of people.

Jephtah Abu: And you will literally listened to him different discussions about it and I always say that's actually true diversity, because they kind of mean the same to every people.

Jephtah Abu: Or it can seem to like everybody in the same space and it's just a common misconception, I always try and correct that when we say the I doesn't just go by race, because more than race cars opinions.

Jephtah Abu: and ideas, sexual orientation, ethnicity mcafee stuck up ability like literally a lot of people are like Okay, how do you balance it like, how do you focus on one you can just focus on one if you.

Jephtah Abu: Like is they'll say okay this case where they'll share with the only this part, and the rest, you can have it is a shared equally that they can only one part, and giving people winners in food cake to share.

Jephtah Abu: So it's like.

Jephtah Abu: Acknowledging that it's so much more focusing on it as a full spectrum it's like key because you can yes, you can leave and cover it if you say Okay, I want to be direct.

Jephtah Abu: go across all spectrums acknowledging like Okay, we have a person of color in a community or we have someone that's neuro diversity in our Community like inclusive language has to be created for people that.

Jephtah Abu: have lived in Macau obviously cockup deficiencies or like means like this is like key because people just do okay it's race people of color and our Community.

Jephtah Abu: As a checklist is so easy to checklist here like we have one person in Africa checklists we have one person as African American checklist what you have which I always said, who just.

Jephtah Abu: is just you're just a community that has an African economy.

Jephtah Abu: into that as an entrepreneur America you're not diverse.

Chris Detzel: You know it's.

Chris Detzel: You got me thinking, and I think.

Chris Detzel: That some it feels hard to do one, especially when when I think about my digital Community like I don't always have conversations, specifically with a person that posts, a question into the Community.

Chris Detzel: Regardless that color or whatever, and if I do see that you know, maybe they are from another country or from you know.

Chris Detzel: African descent, or something you know oh that's interesting but.

Chris Detzel: You know i'm not calling them to get to know them i'm not you know so.

Chris Detzel: I think it's a challenge when you think when you think if all you have is this digital community.

Chris Detzel: which you know, I do have webinars and we do speak but it's not like one on one you can't have a one on one conversation with thousands of people, you know, in your community, but I think you can be cognizant of that and I think, maybe.

Chris Detzel: i'm just I don't know what I don't know but i'm thinking that you know, having conversations like this could help.

Chris Detzel: You know somebody like me, you know.

Chris Detzel: Think about you know how am I how am I.

Chris Detzel: Engaging how am I interacting how am.

Jephtah Abu: I.

Chris Detzel: You know, making sure they're.

Chris Detzel: included and different you know aspects of the Community itself right, you know I mean.

Chris Detzel: You know, I think that that's so intriguing you know, especially your resource thing that's coming out that got me intrigued my friend so.

Jephtah Abu: yeah it's it's it's like you don't realize like in the Community space, I think, recently about is that Community management just by becoming like a thing in the last for three years.

Jephtah Abu: And it's like i've been in tech for like six years and even in tech it's heavily dominated by Caucasian.

Jephtah Abu: And like heavy so there was a there was a need for diversity to like.

Chris Detzel: I don't disagree with that.

Jephtah Abu: yc.

Jephtah Abu: I mean we.

Chris Detzel: You know, we even a real to and every other tech company i've been at you know, trying to get more diversity in it has to be.

Chris Detzel: An effort you have to make you have to think differently now, because if you don't you'll just hire the same people that look like you, you know what I mean.

Chris Detzel: And you don't even think I mean like, if you think about the nfl today, for example, you know, and most of the coaches are Caucasian and that all most of the players are African American right like, if you so yeah.

Chris Detzel: Owners owners for sure.

Jephtah Abu: yeah.

Jephtah Abu: For sure like.

Jephtah Abu: One of the biggest ones i've seen.

Chris Detzel: as well.

Chris Detzel: You know so, but you are starting to see it that come out slowly but surely it's but they're having to put an effort into saying now every single every single team must have.

Chris Detzel: I don't know if there's an offensive coordinator defensive coordinator that's African American period, you know what I mean or some kind of.

Chris Detzel: So there's but they're putting those efforts in there because there's not enough and it's obvious right you look at the tech space, especially.

Chris Detzel: Lots of Caucasians there, and you know not enough African Americans women even women and that kind of stuff you just don't see it, you know even us we've had to make an effort to start saying okay X percent is not enough, you know what I mean.

and

Chris Detzel: And we call it out now you know, and so you know you are slowly but surely, seeing it move up but it's not.

Chris Detzel: it's not fast enough.

Chris Detzel: You know, and it could be, maybe i'm not sure is there enough African Americans or women in the tech space that can be more technical and things like that I think they're starting to be.

Chris Detzel: I think there.

Chris Detzel: And so we have to go after that you know so.

Jephtah Abu: I don't display.

Jephtah Abu: Is is is it's amazing because it's like people of color and women alike take it upon themselves to be focused it's like when are waiting again like Okay, we want to like before God so yeah creating initiatives I women in tech women who code and these women are given.

Jephtah Abu: The opportunity yeah because it would have been different if it was like a white man that was in charge of women who code.

Jephtah Abu: You probably like like literally if you do likewise, for me, what you see that all these organizations are usually like governed by women of color in terms of D Ai is something that you see like check it out Buddha are like advocates for D and most of them are usually people of color.

Jephtah Abu: Especially like marginalize people between the LGBT community.

Jephtah Abu: Because they have taken upon themselves.

Jephtah Abu: yeah they know what it feels like to be like segregated or much now like so they're like I don't want this for anyone like I want to be better if you say we mean like if i'm telling my story because i've experienced it is different if.

Jephtah Abu: I was telling me it's based on hearsay and I spoke with some people like my this I wish you talking to people of color people that in the US some able to get a glimpse of is where you go to.

Jephtah Abu: Like the communities page or some conversations as a black person I don't know how because it's like you know understand if you have not walked in my shoes if I meet another person that is Nigeria.

Jephtah Abu: I can try to talk to you about it so when you have like this certain strategies in place imagine like having a sub Community for African Americans definitely we.

Jephtah Abu: Human beings naturally gravitate grab dates to people that are used to what they are familiar with, so if you come to setting or a party and you see.

Jephtah Abu: White white person, on the other is the only white person then automatically your mind to go to that person, are you literally good, because you are familiar with it and it's difficult to like go out of your comfort zone and it.

Jephtah Abu: was coming into like.

Jephtah Abu: If i'm a person of color if i'm in blood pressure, I join a Community I see only one Nigeria out go to Nigeria.

Jephtah Abu: yeah it's like in the Community strategy, how do you create it in such a way that it will, when a person goes down the injured person so two of them, or the group has to share with like the major committee and that's so common like subgroups for women's group of people of.

Jephtah Abu: color people of the LGBT community and it's like one I think that's a quick tip that anyone can.

Chris Detzel: Take right now it's good to have you so groups.

Jephtah Abu: Obvious of what you have enough Members and engaging them in conversations.

Chris Detzel: Now it's such a good point, I think.

Chris Detzel: you're right, I mean you know it feels like are for the most part, those people that are creating those groups like.

Chris Detzel: You know coding for women are women that that now code and they want to teach other women, how to code and those kind of movements are.

Chris Detzel: Most likely not going to be Chris decile trying to.

Chris Detzel: Teach women, how to code, not to say you can't have men or whatever teaching women, how to code, because I mean that's part of it, but somebody who's going to lead that movement and it'd be kind of weird for a man to lead that movement in a sense, right and.

Jephtah Abu: same thing, it was so weird.

Jephtah Abu: Because he will not have the experience what it feels like yeah the woman was like okay you can't do this because a woman so so is that I think that's what drives like people are rushing nobody I there is this like angie when all this this I call it in an angel in our like.

Jephtah Abu: spirit of when you are being enough space, I like I don't want anybody else to express it so you feels use like become active I mentioned before, in this entire like when you started that i'm sorry, especially alone it.

Jephtah Abu: Was okay i'm talking about with you talking like outreach I on stage every day.

Jephtah Abu: Because I know how it feels like to be coming from an injury in Nigeria, so I wanted our Community managers to get that opportunity, so I have to like pull out of my comfort zone, every day, I have to lie down.

Jephtah Abu: To like have this conversation because i'm sure like I wish I just tried those names right now we are for our Community managers in Nigeria.

Jephtah Abu: Imagine like talking about this on all your platforms so awesome well young rookie we want to welcome you to my they just love it Thank you Jeff mentioned it and that's why he's kind of policy shows, are very important.

Chris Detzel: I agree, I.

Chris Detzel: I love these conversations and and i'm.

Chris Detzel: i'm intrigued and I have a lot to learn and and I appreciate you bringing this to the forefront man, I mean you're leading the movement, or at least trying to lead the movement right to.

Chris Detzel: to let the night like people know Nigerians there's tons of Community managers out there there's there's you know it's not just you.

Chris Detzel: yeah but you know, like is I kind of think about it, you know the so that to me is you're mentioning a report earlier around hey 70% of the people today that are Community managers are in the US, and that means 30% or elsewhere.

Chris Detzel: You know, and you can imagine, Nigeria, they probably won't even thinking about.

Jephtah Abu: That.

Chris Detzel: You know what I mean or maybe there's a half percent of whatever they were thinking and the rest are in Europe, or something like that or UK and I think a solid report we can't remember but.

Chris Detzel: But there's 4000 so you know if there's 4000 that means I mean how many are actually in the US, you know, like so.

Chris Detzel: I don't think they were counting that number.

Chris Detzel: of Community managers leaders and things like that, so this has been super intriguing and I appreciate commanded in bringing this up anything else on your mind or.

Jephtah Abu: Oh.

Chris Detzel: By the way, by the way.

Chris Detzel: Your passion is amazing I love it I love it's it's more than passion, it feels like it's a love it's got to get it out there, like you just telling people you know, like and I love that about.

Chris Detzel: about you and, and I think that's what it takes it's it's also hard it's going to be about consistency and continuing to tell that story and continue to get out there.

Chris Detzel: You know you're doing a lot of things right now, you know if you're doing it for me, a year from now, because that's the hard part is to continuously do something over and over to get that word out and.

Chris Detzel: You are making a difference, you know, and I mean i'm seeing it, you know you're on here, and you know you in your on other podcasts and you're speaking and other places and getting the word out there, so.

Chris Detzel: You know, good for you man, I mean that's for somebody that's shy and not.

Chris Detzel: You know, used to doing something like this, you know you're out of your comfort zone, but I think we talked about this early I don't know if it was on the show or the pre show, but you know you got to push yourself, you know whether it's business whether it's.

Chris Detzel: Some cause that you're you're focused on within the Community.

Chris Detzel: This has been inspiring to me man I it's not something that i'm really you know I don't think about it a ton you know, to be honest, I mean I have thought about it, but I don't really take action, to be honest and I need to you know.

Jephtah Abu: yeah there's a book, I think, is.

Jephtah Abu: A forgotten it's like why white people don't think about.

Jephtah Abu: It is a racial issue or something like that it's like I learned that everyone has a bubble like everyone's babu.

Jephtah Abu: yeah exactly if you grew up in a whites only states, you probably don't know so much about like African Americans what it's that that's not an excuse like I call it.

Jephtah Abu: Like I don't know should never be the end of a conversation, it should always be the beginning of one I don't know and what do you do next.

Jephtah Abu: crowds way become more lens how do I got on my way I, like you said it's not everyone wants to make efforts like people love your comfort zone like it's not.

Jephtah Abu: easy and nothing, nothing grows into your comfort zone just concocted, but if you go out and that's the biggest mistake like.

Jephtah Abu: Leaving what you're used to talk about what you're passionate about or learn more things is like it makes you a bigger personally better person and so yeah i'll just end with I don't know she never be the end of the conversation always at the beginning of one.

Chris Detzel: Like that it's funny because I say that all the time is I grew up in a town called little elm Texas so it's really small town in Texas and.

Chris Detzel: And I was raised very kind of we didn't travel anywhere, we didn't do anything you know, and so I was very much in this bubble like you mentioned and then finally.

Chris Detzel: I kind of get out of that bubble, and I completely, but you know I get to travel all around the world and and get to meet a lot of different people you know, and I realized, it was in my early 30s then.

Chris Detzel: You know there's a whole new world there's a whole world out there, that you know it's not always you know my religion isn't necessarily vote, religion or my.

Chris Detzel: Thinking shouldn't just be that thinking you know what I mean like people think in different ways, and they have their traditions, they have their rituals they they.

Chris Detzel: it's different you know, but what I notice about people in general is we all like to have beers and hang out and talk and do cool shit you know what I mean like it's just.

Chris Detzel: You know that's you know love to have a beer with you one day, you know i'm out there you're here, you know if we get to go to a conference together or whatever, and just shoot the shit you know what I mean like that's really to me.

Chris Detzel: What i've learned about people in general is we all, we all have issues we all have.

Chris Detzel: Good things going on in our lives bad things all these things but we're still human and we still want to talk and hang out, you know what I mean, and it has to be you know I don't care, who you are I would love to hang out know what I mean but but.

Chris Detzel: The bubble is real.

Chris Detzel: bubble is real until you get out of that you can't think differently, you don't allow yourself to think differently, you know.

Jephtah Abu: yeah and even affects your walk to because it's like if you have it, but squad by us, I think this is a psychology is called the pygmalion effect, say, basically, it means that if you have like a printed written predetermined idea about someone.

Jephtah Abu: yeah you have an.

Jephtah Abu: action towards that person and that action towards that person, the person will react in such a way that.

Jephtah Abu: We are family or action so like a perfect example is if, for example, you remind me of a boolean I had a second year in high school.

Jephtah Abu: I will treat you like, like me, this they know which, like, I will treat you nicely basically an intern you obviously not you realize like you will not react to me back and proceed with caution, you like hey, why does this do hits me so much.

Jephtah Abu: And I you know pretty nicely in my mind i'm like yes he's that kind of person, but it's my ideal view that made you treat me that way since like having even in Community space like.

Jephtah Abu: Not neutral, which is not easy, like having a neutral ideological neutral stance against things can help out a lot.

Chris Detzel: Absolutely.

Chris Detzel: Well Jeff.

Chris Detzel: This has been awesome dude this is.

Chris Detzel: Really eye opening to me and.

Chris Detzel: And I love your point of view about diversity, inclusion and you know not something that we really talk about too much and having your perspective has been extremely helpful and extremely eye opening to me and I appreciate you coming on I mean.

Chris Detzel: we'll have to do this again if.

Chris Detzel: If you want and.

Chris Detzel: Maybe talk more about it and see how your things you know your your resource thing is going talk more about that you know if you want to open.

Chris Detzel: But.

Chris Detzel: Thanks everyone for coming to another peers over beers i'm Chris decile and.

Jeff.

Thank you, Sir.