Episode 067 - Community Engagement Strategy

00:00.00
Michael Sandoval
Hello and welcome to another episode of peers over beers why'm 1 of your guests Michael sandoval yeah I know that's funny I had a pause there for a moment I like guest host. Yeah I'm 1 of your hosts.

00:06.78
cdetzel
You're actually a host but I'm the other host Chris detzel.

00:13.21
cdetzel
Yeah, yeah, today's guest is Michael sandoval.

00:20.30
Michael Sandoval
Um, this is what happens when you eat too much turkey.

00:25.32
cdetzel
Oh well I you know ie a lot of turkey so it's it's a week or so after thanksgiving right? So yeah man we went to vermont my wife and son we spent some time there and got to it Burlington vermont actually ands.

00:28.86
Michael Sandoval
Yeah, um, did you have a good 1

00:41.93
Michael Sandoval
Yeah, did you go downtown that Burlington has like ah or I get it confused with new hampshire. Yeah I agree to confused with hampshire. Yeah, ah.

00:42.78
cdetzel
3 or four days there. It's pretty cool, nice and cold. But.

00:48.54
cdetzel
We did go Downtown. We actually stayed downtown. But yeah, it was pretty cool man nice and cold and it's like it was so funny because we were It was so Cold. You know it's kind of windy and it's right there by this big Lake. Um, and my wife would be like. Hey. Do you want to go into this makeup store or you know whatever store that I'm not our bookstore I'm like yes yes I do because it's so cool I hear I do not want to go stay out here and usually like I'll wait outside now. Yeah is it heated and of course it's heated. So now it was. It was a good Time. You know so.

01:11.56
Michael Sandoval
Yeah.

01:18.32
Michael Sandoval
Ah, it depends is it needed.

01:26.48
Michael Sandoval
That's how I know I'm spoiled with ah ah with the where we are in in the world because we get cold and we're like oh you know it's It's cute because it's nice. It's winy. But then you go inside and you're fine isn't any ice. There isn't any snow you know that.

01:26.56
cdetzel
None of us have been there before.

01:31.29
cdetzel
Yeah, and el paso and Dallas and.

01:40.29
cdetzel
Um.

01:43.29
Michael Sandoval
Doesn't bite in your skin. But when you're up and yeah up there. It's ridiculous I remember visiting 1 time but I was there for ah but they call leaf peeping season just to see the leaves and it wasn't new hampshire and it was already cold. This is like what late September early October kill and.

01:51.98
cdetzel
Okay, never heard of that Really wait leaf leafs I don't know Yeah, just looked at the leaves.

02:02.34
Michael Sandoval
Yeah I was like oh God they call it leaf peeping like peep peeping. Yeah and of course in the in the act they call them. Ah yeah, leaf peeppa. Ah the changing of the the leaves. Yeah yeah, maple leaves and also that's actually really beautiful.

02:11.13
cdetzel
Changing. So so it's just kind of the changing of the winter and you'd see all I mean the leaves of the in the winter or whatever. Well we saw a lot of that right? like I mean most of them are pretty brown but you know ah still some leaves fallen from the sky and then when we went.

02:21.50
Michael Sandoval
But no.

02:30.88
cdetzel
Through North carolina we saw some of that too that was pretty cool as we're going. Yeah well we yeah yeah, but I am going there in a couple weeks to ashfield north carolina so for a week off

02:32.12
Michael Sandoval
Ah, that's cool when you go North carolina winner oh because you had land there to go up north right? Ah yeah. Oh that's that's a pretty it's becoming a a bit of a meca for some of the digital stuff. Yeah, um, yeah.

02:48.50
cdetzel
Oh is it so um, cool why I know that we wanted to talk a little bit about you know engagement and how do we engage? Ah users digitally right? So whether it's through ecommerce or whether it's through um you know. Communities and those kinds of things and and so what I wanted to talk about and I think we talked a little bit about this earlier is you know there's there's a lot of ways to engage your users. You know 1 is and we've talked about this 1 a lot and we won't beat this dead horse anymore. But about the webinar program and how do you engage users and create content and all these other things which is is kind of a. You know, 5 birds 1 stone type thing right? And that's really what I do it. But there's a lot of other things that you can think about as you know from from a community standpoint I think of rewards recognition leaderboard I think of you know, even in app or in in the platform kind of emails.

03:28.37
Michael Sandoval
My.

03:47.20
cdetzel
Go out personalized and things like that you know to really get people to do certain things that you want them to do and think that's sort of on an e-commerce way and talk more about that if you want but so I want to talk you know maybe a little bit deeply about maybe 1 of those engagement type things and maybe even because I know it's 1 of the hardest things to do with communities. To engage your users digitally and get them to answer questions and all that other stuff. What do you think.

04:13.37
Michael Sandoval
Yes's a good 1 like in my head as I start thinking about it as you were talking through it and I was soon to sound familiar. But like all those are good Tactics chris ah like like strategically.

04:19.00
cdetzel
Um, no, not good point.

04:27.51
Michael Sandoval
How do we? You know? how do you create an engagement strategy right? that that kind of permeates throughout everything right? and I was kind of generalizing I was thinking about a couple things right? We started a little bit as on the pre-show. Um 1 of the things I think about is what are you doing.

04:31.66
cdetzel
Mm.

04:45.95
Michael Sandoval
To make make a community member feel wanted right? Um, and that's around I think we talk about response time we that the that we ah that there's a. Methodology where they feel they can express themselves that they feel open to talk and that's just first before you start talking about these other things. Um, ah, the second thing is my head is not every ah.

05:12.20
cdetzel
Got it.

05:23.20
Michael Sandoval
Member is going to want to talk so I was thinking about segmentation. How do you segment your audience in the community to give them the channel that they wish to speak in some folks are great in forums. Some folks are great in comments. Some folks are just there just to absorb information.

05:23.94
cdetzel
Fuck. Yep.

05:39.40
cdetzel
Yeah, it's true. Yeah liking.

05:41.44
Michael Sandoval
But you that's still an engagement right reading looking searching is still an engagement. So. How do you say hey from those who are are actives. You know they're very engaged those who are are you know passer buyers. Whatever they're very engaged because of these metrics. Kind of thens through my head and I think the last 1 is around. Okay, great if you have those 2 solved and what are the things that are driving. Those are their your tactic stuff. You know how? yeah that that's kind of start started startinging my head. You know the earthos but maybe.

06:09.60
cdetzel
Stuff I just mentioned.

06:18.46
Michael Sandoval
I'll turn to you a little bit and kind of in your community. How do you? How do you create an environment that's um, open to speak with how how good are your response rates. How good are our folks ah replying.

06:33.42
cdetzel
Um, yeah yeah I think there's there's a few things there. What is ah no I really like it I like how you bring it up to another level right? because you know i.

06:38.62
Michael Sandoval
Maybe I just up there. What do you think about those thoughts I just said. Now.

06:49.17
cdetzel
I Think it's some of the same things you are you have to have an and strategy around engagement. You know what? what problems are you trying to solve through this engagement strategy and then what are the tactics to go drive that So I just you know me I like to just start thinking. What can I go do right now to make this things happen. You know like.

07:03.24
Michael Sandoval
I Totally care to worry at.

07:08.37
cdetzel
But it's it's I get I agree with you and and I think that 1 the things that I always say is is 1 nobody wants to go to a party that no 1 ne's at so if if somebody is posting something if somebody's posting and there's no replies and that kind of stuff. So I think.

07:17.78
Michael Sandoval
I believe 1 hundred percent about that. Yeah. I yeah.

07:27.71
cdetzel
1 is you get to have some kind of ah of quick response rates. So whether it's some of the smart people of employees or if you can get customers or partners or somebody else to respond today. Our um response rate is about twenty hours which generally I say forty 8 forty 8 hours is a good thing.

07:32.00
Michael Sandoval
Um, yeah, yeah.

07:47.68
cdetzel
Um, a lot of when you look at support tickets in industries like ours so customer creates a support ticket from open then to close that could be about 10 to thirteen days sounds like a long time compared to the community right? So you can take away all those quick hit. Have to get into this piece but those quick hit questions and answers to where they can find that stuff on community and then then they can go solve the bigger problems. Um, so so I think response rate is is a good 1 and I think it's important and and kind of thinking that and then. You know what problem are you trying to solve you know at the end of the day I want questions to be answered fast. You know I want them to be able to trust in the answer that they get. Yeah trust.

08:27.97
Michael Sandoval
Ah, you said it I was waiting for you to say it. That's exactly what you're trying to do that is what creates a strong engagement strong strategy is trust these guys have to trust you.

08:38.94
cdetzel
Yeah I know I have to talk it out loud. Um, maybe so yep.

08:47.13
Michael Sandoval
But it's it's critical. You just said that like that you know if I come to a forum and I look and I start you know like okay it looks promising you know part of it is acquisition. You're absolutely right. Acquisition strategy around Seo Sem you know, However, you want to do it word of mouth. Whatever.

08:55.35
cdetzel
Yet.

09:02.11
cdetzel
Yeah, yeah.

09:06.14
Michael Sandoval
They came to your community and now you have to that's your opportunity to begin building that trust part of that trust is to look to see whether or not. It's an empty party. Okay hey it looks kind of happening I'm here. Okay now I'm going to do this effort of physically Making. Ah question if you think about it's a huge friction point right? I have to log in.

09:25.97
cdetzel
I agree I remember I remember having this conversation with you a lot and I'd say these things a lot too to people so funny.

09:33.00
Michael Sandoval
Yeah, you you? but but it's funny because I think when we talk about engagement that member ah part of the beginning of engagement strategy is your on ramping. Yeah, that is the beginning. That's your first touch point that's like how you easy is me to get involved.

09:43.49
cdetzel
Yeah, um.

09:51.55
Michael Sandoval
How quick are you getting me to make your first post. What does that first engagement look like I think we even talked about in our past of maybe the first engagement is a soft, ask the soft ask is search the soft ask is upload your photo you know and and so maybe.

09:58.12
cdetzel
Yeah.

10:09.38
Michael Sandoval
You know, looking at it in time of how do you nurture a person to go to be a high level engager and no, you're right? Yeah exactly Yeah, exactly correct. Um.

10:15.34
cdetzel
Yeah, and like you said, not everybody will engage but people will look and find it you know, but we got to find those people that will engage is part of the key right.

10:28.47
Michael Sandoval
But that's the beginning of kind of beginning your segmenting this person's like okay this person's coming in. They just want to search they want to do some things. No worries I have tactics to keep them engaged in this rung at Infin item right? and.

10:29.00
cdetzel
Kind of that journey.

10:39.41
cdetzel
Is.

10:45.95
Michael Sandoval
If they begin taking the next steps you start to smell that that propensity to say the next step then you say hey let's move this person. You know to the next level of engagement which is answering or Participating. Ah and we even talked about some of these tactics 1 of those tactics are. Here are some unanswered questions I challenge you smart folks out there. You know the answer you know and that was an engagement strategy of or tactic actually now strategy ah to challenge the Alpha Ah, ah in somebody.

11:05.43
cdetzel
This is.

11:20.14
cdetzel
Um, yeah.

11:24.82
Michael Sandoval
Like oh yeah I know of this stuff and then they and and and from the pool of people who are just the lurkers pop 1 pops right? and then being able to nurture that person into the next rung right? And that's the that's when i.

11:32.25
cdetzel
Yeah, yeah.

11:41.59
Michael Sandoval
You think about engagement training. That's what it's in my head is how do you move people further down the engagement path otherwise you keep everybody down here right? and it's funny because not funny but 1 your your tactic thought is actually the push up right.

11:52.34
cdetzel
Um, and is. Yes.

12:01.29
Michael Sandoval
So you talked about things like you know yes a webinar is is an engagement strategy I'm sorry an engagement tactic but what it does is moving some people who find that interesting into the next step. Um another we exactly.

12:08.55
cdetzel
Yep.

12:14.28
cdetzel
That's right, it's a different way to engage right? So some of these are just attending. You know I'll get 60 or 70 people and that's good and they'll ask a lot of questions there but they're not asking them here in the community. But that's okay because they're still engaging in the community. But if.

12:28.25
Michael Sandoval
Exactly 1 hundred percent.

12:31.12
cdetzel
But the of the day I got to tie that back together right? to say they're still engaging. That's the hard part because none of these systems are tied together and not to use excel on those whole bullshit. But um, you know, but yeah I like that.

12:36.20
Michael Sandoval
Ah, yeah, yeah, and the other things I think about is it it is it is I won't say the word easy but the big bangs are the ones you want to drive right? ah.

12:54.28
cdetzel
Um, yeah.

12:54.85
Michael Sandoval
Reward and recognition systems. Um, um, you know, ah the contributor of the month um you know these kind of big things programs you want to want to put in place but really kind of keeping that pool of people who are always coming in.

13:02.57
cdetzel
Yes.

13:12.48
cdetzel
Most.

13:14.40
Michael Sandoval
To come back again and again is really the the base foundation soup and I think we remember working together. 1 of the things I wanted to help drive was just getting someone to like a post like my first. My first push in an engagement.

13:27.85
cdetzel
Yep.

13:33.79
Michael Sandoval
Strategy is just to do the basics like a post Um, ah ah, looking at how many times people search for something. Ah how often are they looking at a post these very simple things to say if these begin to drop off. Then I need to change the behavior I even looked at average activity per user to see whether or not over time as new people came in was I able to maintain an activity rate because that.

13:55.13
cdetzel
Yeah. Is.

14:13.40
Michael Sandoval
Told me that no matter if I'm growing if if I'm still able to keep or maintain or increase engagement and I mean engagement very specifically. Um, then I'm doing good another thing I'll talk about is ah very similar to conversions.

14:19.20
cdetzel
Yet.

14:26.60
cdetzel
Yeah.

14:32.45
Michael Sandoval
And the digital side where you want to look at what are our our top conversions and our microconversions that drive some of the big conversions in a proper e-commerce organization. The 1 conversion obviously is sale right? An actual.

14:41.24
cdetzel
Is it.

14:48.93
cdetzel
Yeah.

14:51.61
Michael Sandoval
Move to cart and then cart to cart to purchase and but there are some other kind of microconversions that are part to tell the story whether or not that big conversion is going to happen number of times they view a product if they viewed a review. Um.

15:05.65
cdetzel
This is.

15:11.30
Michael Sandoval
In some way you're doing the same thing the holy grail in a community for you could be 2 things 1 is posting and responding and it takes a lot for somebody to do those 2 things. But what are the some of the micro conversions that are driving that behavior.

15:14.38
cdetzel
This. Yeah.

15:28.66
cdetzel
Login login.

15:30.20
Michael Sandoval
Ah, you got it? Yeah, they were these small microvergies which you would chart how many logins per session per day. Um, any yeah ah likes per per ah per total Activity. You can set up these key metrics. Simple five Nothing extravagant. You can. Do this as a like ah a bulk you can call it your engagement Index and your engagement index is made up of these five microconversions that say if this engagement Index increases over time I know that I'm driving Good behavior.

16:06.78
cdetzel
And.

16:09.48
Michael Sandoval
The next tactic is taking those who are doing this engagement Index and then grading that so you're saying hey of my total community I have some community members who are driving my index pretty high. They are primed to take the next Step. Of engagement.

16:28.89
cdetzel
And do you create So I've got questions about how to the tactics to drive some of that. So for example, you said you know maybe the number of likes that people come in and the number of logins or whatever and so um, what I kind of think of is to help drive that is kind of.

16:39.84
Michael Sandoval
You know.

16:48.27
cdetzel
Personalized emails that say hey it looks like you've been looking at this you know do you have specific questions if you do ask or whatever. It's those personalized emails that say you're doing these things. Why don't you do this or you might like this or I don't know.

17:02.34
Michael Sandoval
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we even talked them as passive and active engagers right? So an active engagers. They come to the site they do these things a passive engager and I think you when we were together you you did some of this which was I think you did like um.

17:05.77
cdetzel
Okay.

17:15.48
cdetzel
Yeah.

17:20.35
Michael Sandoval
Off the right word was like a newsletter but you would take curated content and push it out to those who didn't quite come to the site but they were consuming that information um personalizing content ah is another.

17:20.57
cdetzel
Yeah.

17:30.63
cdetzel
And.

17:38.99
Michael Sandoval
Element. You know you get a drop off if they have hit unsubscribe but we didn't get any high unsubscribes if memory serves so clearly they were passive engagers and then you can treat it like any other tactic you can say did they click on the link to go to the community. You know those kind of things you can judge.

17:42.58
cdetzel
Now I don't either. Yeah.

17:56.88
Michael Sandoval
Whether or not passive engagement is working. But yeah, that was the tactic I remember you doing that you can you can kind of take the community to them in some way you know another 1 that I know we were working on that's another engagement strategy is being able to get responses in your email right.

18:04.94
cdetzel
Um, yeah.

18:15.13
cdetzel
Yep.

18:16.20
Michael Sandoval
You know you you don't have to come to the community to go respond to something you can kind of get a digest you know.

18:22.55
cdetzel
Yep, no that that happens today. So so there's 3 things that you can ah help me think about as in their tactics but 1 of the tactics is like you said reply by email so somebody gets you know an email that says hey this person. This thing you could just reply by your email I've seen some of that but I haven't driven that activity like people just figure it out. Um, but it's ah something that I could drive. The other piece is um is and I and we we just got this feature functionality I don't know what did you call it. But it's that.

18:45.72
Michael Sandoval
Yeah.

18:59.42
cdetzel
App. Um, for the community itself. So you know I think it's like a 8020 so 80 use desktop twenty percent use mobile so it's not really, but an app could change everything. Yeah, but the app has to be good. You know at this point app has some work that has to be done but um.

19:15.43
Michael Sandoval
And.

19:18.95
cdetzel
You know because there's a whole process is to download it you know and I'm like okay look you know you have to put this you download you go here download this it has nothing about Realto then you put in this url then you do this and I'm like that's too much to tell people to go do I was like fuck that dude you know and.

19:30.99
Michael Sandoval
Yeah, that's a lot of friction that's hard. Yeah.

19:36.51
cdetzel
But it's an opportunity. So if they get better with their app. You know over this next year you know or if if we think that that's going to be a big push that you know data people are using apps you know, then maybe we kind of look at that. But. That's an opportunity you know to really drive engagement if you can get in-app emails or notifications which it does. But again the friction to actually download it get Realto content is somewhat of a had to build this whole How to thing you know to do and I'm like god damn like nobody's gonna do that. Just.

20:05.77
Michael Sandoval
Oh yeah, that that that's ah, that's a barrier now.

20:10.51
cdetzel
Not going to do it. You know, but ah anyways, that's another conversation but still, there's opportunities to get people to do certain things like you said to to drive certain actions that the game I said to I can't remember a third 1 because I just get into that too much. But um.

20:26.69
Michael Sandoval
No, but you do bring up a good point as part of this kind of engagement discussion is around the mobile piece. Um I know when you know when we were together 1 of the things we were starting to think about is how does mobile change the engagement paradigm 1 of the things was this feature of.

20:32.35
cdetzel
Yeah, yeah.

20:41.85
cdetzel
Yeah.

20:46.18
Michael Sandoval
The the phone camera that was inapp and remember we said hey take a picture of ah a part if you don't know what it is. We will try to find it for you. That was an engaged that was a total 1 hundred percent unfederated engagement tactic that we were trying to use so that.

20:48.46
cdetzel
Um, yeah, that's right, yeah same stuff.

21:02.18
cdetzel
Um, and it was the hardest thing to build. It was ridiculous. We couldn't figure it out.

21:04.19
Michael Sandoval
We're getting those it is and con figured out and you're probably running the same system same problem which is some of these community apps. They're just a wrapper for the website and it you need to have a native community.

21:18.15
cdetzel
That's right, That's all it is yep.

21:23.97
Michael Sandoval
App. Ah, if anyone was listening build it ah to help drive that.

21:27.50
cdetzel
That's right? Well here's what they do offer here's what they do offer is a third party company that helped bill it to just go in and do it you know for x number dollars. So thank.

21:36.30
Michael Sandoval
Of course. Ah.

21:43.57
cdetzel
Like Okay, why do you know? I even have this Anyways, you know it's like ah so no, this has been good I think you really brought it up to the level that we should think about um, higher level right? Well no I think it's important.

21:54.90
Michael Sandoval
That's what I do yeah know. But yeah, it's It's a good way to kind of structure it because I look at engagement like a journey. You don't just get someone to engage you build that trust to engage.

22:05.76
cdetzel
Yeah.

22:12.20
Michael Sandoval
And therefore it's a timeline. Not an event so the timeline has to begin this idea of you know first is get in nurture and then you know move up right? kind of move in that in that direction. And the beginning of this engagement strategy is around your onboarding that begins your trust factor. So this is about response your moderation strategy. How well you're getting folks in front of them. The the quality of the answer. That's the beginning of your engagement strategy then this idea of.

22:33.59
cdetzel
Um.

22:47.17
cdetzel
I agree with that.

22:49.81
Michael Sandoval
Segmentation right? How do you begin to look at all these little micro engagements creating an index to understand how well they're staying and then looking at those individuals to see what is the right opportunity for me to move them up and then you define what is moving up for my community. It's. Webinar or a reward recognition and this is where you have to know the community itself to understand what that's going to push you push that you know person to the next. Ah, next level.

23:17.87
cdetzel
Um, yeah, you know it's pretty stressful talking to you sometimes but this is good.

23:26.36
Michael Sandoval
Ah, it's like I this stuff in it now. Um, ah I got to think about timelines and shit ah some bullshit index. Ah.

23:26.37
cdetzel
Ah, but it's really really good. Yeah, some bullshit Index Um, Ah, no to be honest with you like it is kind of stressful but it makes me kind of think about some of the things I've done right? So I think a little bit over.

23:50.39
Michael Sandoval
Um, yeah.

23:50.40
cdetzel
So I've done some good stuff. No doubt about it right? like but I've done some stuff over here I've done some stuff over here and stuff over here instead of focusing in on. Let's say that customer journey from the very beginning like I really feel like I've done a really good job of getting really good answers which is very helpful.

24:06.77
Michael Sandoval
You you have? Yes yep.

24:08.72
cdetzel
Done a good job of getting some of the right people to answer the questions and customers really appreciate that. But what I haven't done a good job and I have been focusing in on it and I need but I do need to do a better job is kind of that beginning journey of you know, just that personalization of you know when a. A person first user first logs into the community. Um, what kinds of things can I build from that journey and then kind of focus maniacally on that piece for the next ninety days what are the things that are going well you know like do these things and then you go to the next tactic it's it's a big.

24:33.48
Michael Sandoval
Yep yep.

24:45.91
cdetzel
Program tactic like you said you know I'm doing you know Webinars I'm doing this and that and the other know so it's a lot of stuff but um, but anyways, this was good man I really appreciate you kind of bringing it up a little bit little bit and stress me out a little bit but that's good.

24:50.40
Michael Sandoval

24:56.72
Michael Sandoval
No yeah, no, it's a I didn't take to.

25:04.34
cdetzel
No, but it it No I learned something every time I talk to you. It's no yeah, yeah.

25:05.87
Michael Sandoval
Ah, if ah if I can reassure you on something you're well ahead of your engagement strategy right? I actually do think what we've been talking about you do really good about getting people in and getting an answer to them. That's your first step.

25:18.56
cdetzel
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's kids There's some things I do a really good job at but there's also things I need to work on I think we all do right? So um, I'm sure. Yeah you reach don't expose all of those on something live. So.

25:26.56
Michael Sandoval
Now No yeah, same here.

25:37.28
Michael Sandoval
Okay, my friend as always great talking to you? Um, ah until next time I'm 1 of your instead of guest hosts for for peer appears over beers. Ah my name is Michael zaal right? I'll see you later.

25:38.26
cdetzel
All right brother.

25:49.18
cdetzel
And I'm the other guest Chris Detel All right.